[doctormetal]

Actions like this will prevent me from buying anything on handango ever again.

The developers should walk away from handango and offer the products themself or, if that isn't possible, using other shops.
If you are a small development house it seems that you should stay away from handango as far as possible.
Taking 50% in revenue is just wrong.

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[PaulOBrien]

I would love to have the time and resources to really sit down and hammer out a site that could really cause problems for Handango, but sadly, I don't. I wonder if I could work with Mobihand to have some sort of cashback scheme?

Buy from Handango = $20. Buy from Mobihand, also $20 with $x instant cashback.

See what I did there?



P

[PaulOBrien]

You are right tho, developers have no choice but to list on Handango, as they are currently the biggest store out there. In an ideal world, people could stand up and say this is not acceptable, but due to the fact the WinMo s/w market is so fledgling, it's not feasible to do so, as it's hard enough for WinMo developer shops to pay the bills as it is.



P

[jimbouk]

Free market economy.

Handango provide a delivery system, payment handling system and customers. Without them developers could earn a higher percentage but will their increased costs and decreased customers actually mean less income?

I am sure that developers will vote with their feet either way - either now or in the future if Handango bump the fees up again.

[dreamweavel]

I'm not using Handango again...

[Syphon Filter]

I wonder what the bigger developers out there think about this?

Say SPB?

[Dumdidum]

As a developer, this is really going to xxx me off. I was already veeeery unhappy with the 40% they took, beause their support is ridiculous.
My app is already selling 3$ higher on Handango as directly from my website, and I will change this to an ever bigger amount. It's just not fair from Handango, and: If this Shop would be an European shop, they would be in big trouble due because they are using their market position to fxxx the developers. They are doing NOTHING for that 50%. So my applications will be a lot more expensive on Handango by now...

Btw. you have to fill with IRS, else they take another 30% from your earnings!

[Dumdidum]

Btw. I want to see one single company that makes a million with mobile applications on handango!

[geosta]

This is going to sound like a Labour government focus group report, and I apologise for that in advance, butI think the best way to combat Handango's dominance is through educating the consumer.

Take myself as a good example. I was happy to shop at Handango in the past because it was the biggest shop on the Net for mobile software. You could look at all the software in a particular category and decide which one was best, all on the one site.

But since I read about the way tHandango reams its developers, which ultimately lead to the creation of FairDeal, I haven't bought anything through Handango since. I try to buy directly from the developers, and when I can't do that, through FairDeal.

And yes, I've used the companies name on just about too many occassions in the above comment, in the hope that if everyone else does the same, when a new smartphone user googles handango, this thread might be near the top of the results.

[dearsina]

Ultimately, if you sell 3x as much using Handango, you can expect them charging such a premium. Presumably they do advertising and marketing of their (and by proxy, your) online shop and bring in the business. It's not much different from the model applied by Hollywood.

Lesson to be learned: The money is in distribution, folks.

[PaulOBrien]

Yes, they deserve a cut, but should they earn the same as the developer? I don't think so...

P

[auto123456]

Paul (MVP), on Feb 21 2008, 19:25, said:

I would love to have the time and resources to really sit down and hammer out a site that could really cause problems for Handango, but sadly, I don't. I wonder if I could work with Mobihand to have some sort of cashback scheme?

Buy from Handango = $20. Buy from Mobihand, also $20 with $x instant cashback.

See what I did there?



P

Paul,

I think you have something there...

If Mobihand started a simple campaign of "We offer 10% discount on ALL apps EVERY DAY", then the developer would still be setting the "Suggested" Retail price (SRP) in Mobihand's catalog to $19.95 so they won't be violating Handango's agreement, but yet the app is being sold to consumers for 10% less because it's Mobihand offering the lower price, not the developer, so this would use a loop hole to bypass that anti-competitive clause in Handango's agreement.

And this would be a great incentive/reason for people to start making all their purchases through Mobihand and no longer Handango!

[PaulOBrien]

Yes, that's an interesting idea, a x% discount all the time. Hmmm...

Maybe it's time to give fairdeal an overhaul and have a chat with Mobihand

P

[timwells]

(apologies for the long post)

As a developer I haven't paid a huge amount of attention to Handango, here's why: We do about 80% of our retail sales off of our own website. It's possible that many of those people are being "referred" to us from the Handango website (despite efforts not to redirect). I just think its a natural tendency of most people to go to the developer's site directly when buying a product (don't you want to know the type of company you are buying software from?). Plus I don't think that most of us are nearly as pushy in the sales process as Handango (we don't ask for any "data" whatsoever before downloading the trial, does anyone else?). So the majority of our sales are at the higher return to us. We were also one of Handango's "first" developers and absolutely nuked the idea of any sort of exclusive arrangement with them, but I'm told that others got caught up in that.

The sad part of all of this IMO - since about a year ago there has been this continual errosion of the Windows Mobile "ecosystem". The smallest of developers - who were willing to take chances when Microsoft needed 3rd party developers - are now being squeezed by the "big names" in WM. Making a business out of this was hard before, now it's virtually impossible. It could be sinister of me, but it seems that this is an indication of a more serious problem within Handango. Did they take a gift wrapped opportunity and somehow managed to screw it up so badly that they are now faced with a serious profit margin decline?

I want someone who really understands the retail and licensing issues of this market. I haven't gotten that from Handango, maybe others have. Some examples, if Microsoft isn't going to solve the software update problem, then certainly Handango was in a unique place to provide that to their developers. Instead we have all spent thousands building our own incompatible systems. Frankly, no one wants my "auto update" taking up their precious desktop space, nor do they probably want that from the dozen other applications that they have installed, but if there was a single system...(i've seen posts on this site on the topic). I also want someone to make enterprise licensing a non-issue. Today we don't have a good solution for supporting "in-enterprise" install and update, nor do I want to spend the money to create one. There again, Handango would have been in a unique situation to make that happen. And my list goes on...

So, as an open question to developers: What are you looking for in an online partner? What would you need to switch online resellers?

...we'll probably just suck it up unless a great alternative comes along...I'm not holding my breath.

[battletank]

I must admit, I was initially shocked by this, when I read it. Personally, I stopped using Handango the moment they started charging extra for 'buyers protection' - so I need to pay $3 extra to ensure I can re-install apps if I update my phone.

It's clear, however, that there's more to this. Handango undertake a number of marketing activities for their money... they provide mobile sales tools, discounts and loyalty points, all of which encourage sales. As someone said before, it's a free market, and no-one forces anyone to use Handango.

Developers choose Handango, because 100x50% is far better than 10x80%; software doesn't have much incremental cost (support I guess is the only exception), and so every 'unit' that is sold after the cost of development is sunk has a positive value, regardless of price - there's no bottom line.

This post has been edited by battletank: 22 February 2008 - 10:52 PM

[PaulOBrien]

A shared online update client is coming

P

[awarner]

I stopped using Handango years ago when they first started to screw the developer, it's bad enough with all the piracy that goes on taking revenue away from the developer. Now the smaller guy is going to wonder is it really worth it and maybe stop developing those one off special apps they we see from time to time.

[timwells]

Paul (MVP), on Feb 22 2008, 16:09, said:

A shared online update client is coming

P

Yeah, I thought about providing ours to outside developers too. We've distributed software on tens of millions of devices, but I still don't believe we have the power to create a "standard". Paul, I wish you the best of luck, but it's a tall order my friend.

[Edit]
And honestly, I want my reseller to manage this process for me. Whenever I post an update to the reseller, it should automatically generate an email to those who have asked for update news after it posts the update. The way it is now we have to manually sort through emails and maintain "opt in" lists for product updates. Handango could have done that for me, they had everything they needed through the purchase transaction.

At the time of the purchase I should be able to decide if I want to be notified by email (with links to the update) or if I want some squirrley little applet running in the background on my PC (that I'll one day mistake for spyware and nuke).

In a similar fashion, my reseller should provide me with bulk email access to my customers. (It doesn't have to be free, but cheap would be good.) Maybe I want to send out a customer loyalty deal where I offer some discount to customers who bought product A at the release of Product B. This stuff would be so easy if it was managed from the beginning of the process.

...alright, stepping off my soap box...

This post has been edited by timwells: 23 February 2008 - 12:14 AM

[DaPutster]

I ran into similar pricing structures about 6 years ago when I started selling some software I had created. The best deal at the time is still one of the best I have found, a company named eSellerate (www.esellerate.net). Now obviously you don't get the automatic exposure like you do from software consolidation sites, but with a little effort on your end, you can keep a majority of your revenues. Six years later I can't say enough about the quality of support & account management I've seen with them.

[auto123456]

Everyone wins if Fairdeal offered a "20% Off All Products, Every Day":

- Consumers get 20% off the prices Handango charges - Making them very happy :-)
- Mobihand gets 20% of every sale, not to mention the increased sales volume as customers switch from Handango
- Developers get an addition 10% for each sale (over a Handango sale)

Why would anyone buy from Handango, when they can get the same product for cheaper from Fairdeal?

The effect on consumer turnover from handango with "Buy from Fairdeal because they have lower prices" will be significantly more then "Buy from Fairdeal for the same price because 80% of the sale goes to the developer"

This post has been edited by auto123456: 23 February 2008 - 04:49 PM

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