[The Doctor]

Paul (MVP), on Jan 17 2007, 21:09, said:

With regards to the information location... it really depends on how it's done! 'The CellTrack way' is one option, and is fine as long as there is a way for people to update when they get their new devices (i.e. finding the right spot in memory for the data, and telling the component where to go and look). There are other ways of interfacing with the RIL too I imagine...

This is very dependant on the radio version on the phone. For every radio upgrade, you'll need to update the application (well, almost) If you look at my Tornado celltrack thread HERE, you will see that Celltrack requires a different reg key for the imate/cingular/qtek radios to tell it where in the phones memory the CellID is stored. Each radio puts it in a unique memory address. You will get No Signal errors etc. when using a radio section that is not compatible..

If your on O2 UK however, you can use channel 200 to view a list of area codes in use in your area for landlines, dont know how helpful this is but hey, you may be able to use the combination of area codes to pin your location. I know it changes if you move around a town. Unfortuantely, o2 are the only network to offer this service (to my knowledge)

On the smartphone it's:

Start>Setting>Phone>Channels

Then do the following:

Tick enable channels and recieve channel list, then go to Menu>Edit Channels and then, Menu>Add, type in a description such as CellID and enter the channel number 200 in the appropriate box. It'll appear below the active profile box if you use the WM default homescreen but will disappear if you select it and press enter. . It'll reappear when you move CellID or after a certain length of time.

For PPC, Start>settings>phone>more(far right tab), Then tick the enable tick box, and go to settings. Select your language and press new, enter the channel iformation as above and press ok, then tick the box next to your newly created channel. You will get a notification of land line area codes as mentioned above.

If you could find away of 'grabbing' this information, as it appears on the homescreen, you could use it to test the features you mentioned above Paul, such as switching profile etc etc.

For those of you who are able to write apps etc, the celltrack project is open source. More info HERE. You need the celltrack module.

More info what the CellID number means can be found HERE

I've attached an engineering mode utility (found in the windows folder of a hermes device) called fieldtest.exe, it should display the CellID etc from 8 different tower and an all manner of random pieces of information Apparently it works on the HTC 1.24 ROM (havent determined the radio version) for hermes. It doesn't work on a hermes running the latest HTC 1.35 ROM (radio v1.18) tho Its a tool for outputing all the information in the Qualcomm chip 6280 (the chip that enables 3g/hsdpa etc on your hermes) I'd be interested as to what other devices it does work on as they use the qualcomm chips too....

About some of the data:

ARFCN Absolute Radio Frequency Channel Number
RAC Routing Area Code
MNC Mobile Network Code
RSSI Received Signal Strength Indicator
LAC Location Area Code
MCC Mobile Country Code
Cell ID Cell Identity

On the MDA dash you can get a similar screen by typing in *#*#364#*#* You can try this on other phones, i saw references to this code in the SP5/8310 registry etc. This also works on the HTC wizard (link) you may have to change the following reg key tho:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE -> SOFTWARE -> HTC -> EngineerMode -> BuildInEngineeringModeApp = 1

Then soft reset

Your right Paul.. this does raise the bar somewhat

Hope the above helps in the effort though

Phil

[EDIT: I'll update this post the more information i find, so keep checking back! ]

Attached File(s)

•  fieldtest_157.exe (94.99K)
  Number of downloads: 458

This post has been edited by The Doctor: 18 January 2007 - 02:49 AM

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[James]

i really enjoyed using cellTrack.. the major problem as stated above was when i upgraded my phone and it no longer worked... roll on the challange

[SebastienM]

Thanks for the info.
I'm currently owner of an SPV C600 in France. It runs on the Orange network
The registry key is definitely present -its value is 0 by default- even if the shorcut doesnt't seem to work.
The fieldtest application is working; it delivers information on the GSM/GPRS/EGPRS interface.

[PaulOBrien]

Good work 'The Doctor'... it at least shows it can be done, and what info we're looking for!

P

[MBoden]

Paul (MVP), on Jan 17 2007, 20:53, said:

We've done Developer Challenges before on MoDaCo and they've always been a great success... so i'm proud to announce another one! This one raises the bar somewhat however

What you need to do to win!

The challenge is as follows...[list]
[*]Create a component that can be used in a VB.net or C# (i.e. Compact Framework) managed application, to provide access to the Network Number / LAC / Cell ID / Signal Strength and such information from the radio layer of the device.

im no expert , but cellid and signal strength wouldnt that just tell you how far you are from the GSM/3G mast/tower/transmitter/thingy ?

so if you set home to being 500meters (in signal strength) from cell 12345 , wouldnt that give a potential false reading of 1000meters ?

Quote

Anything else?

That's probably all you need to know to get started! If you have any specific questions around the competition, please contact me by PM. I appreciate that this is a difficult competition, particularly the requirement to support a wide range of current and future devices - and I expect only a small number of entrants... but I think the rewards for the community as a whole are great. My decision as judge is final

I'm also keen to hear people's thoughts on the idea?

Get coding

aye aye sir

whens the deadline ?

is it the first or the best solution that wins, anything for runners up ?

[PaulOBrien]

Home can just be a CellID (or a group of)... that's how CellTrack worked and that was fine.

There is no deadline currently... it's the first solution that I judge as being acceptable that wins... and if there is a need for runners up prizes, i'll see what I can rustle up should that time come

P

PS Blimey, long time no see MBoden Member number 80 of over 160,000...

[MBoden]

Paul (MVP), on Jan 18 2007, 22:20, said:

Home can just be a CellID (or a group of)... that's how CellTrack worked and that was fine.

Should the component keep track of which cellIDs thats home or should it just report current CellID and let the developer using the component keep track of what CellId home is ?

either way i'll give it a go over the weekend, seems like a nice little challenge

Paul (MVP), on Jan 18 2007, 22:20, said:

PS Blimey, long time no see MBoden Member number 80 of over 160,000...

hehe, yeah , i noticed that right after i replied, the small forum i once knew have grown big (or huge rather) you must be very proud, i know i would have been, congrats on your success m8

[PaulOBrien]

It should just report the data

P

[stargate]

I have participated at a Microsoft and Orange webinar about WM 5.0 and .NET CF2.0. At the moment there is no API in either managed (.NET) or native (C++) that can currently get this kind of information (that we already know). I am the developer of Mobile Tracking System ( http://www.fighterso...o/mts/index.htm ) and my research so far has shown me that at the moment there is no standardized way to get this information because all the different ROMs out there. You have to hunt for the cellid in the phone's memory and this is a major PITA. Another approach is to use the COM ports but this has it's flaws (although a broad range of devices support it) - one major flaw is the fact that the device must disconnect from GPRS when getting the cellid (by cellid I mean LAC+CID).

I am really excited about this challenge - I really hope that someone could make a standardized component that will work with every WM device (past, present and future).

[PaulOBrien]

What about if the component provides a function to hunt for this location in the phone's memory?

For example, I know my network is T-Mobile (234-30), so could the component use that information to automatically search for the correct memory location?

Also good to see this challenge excites others too

P

[PaulOBrien]

A clarification requested:

A component that is CF2 only (i.e. not compatible with CF1) IS acceptable.

P

[MBoden]

stargate, on Jan 19 2007, 02:31, said:

I am really excited about this challenge - I really hope that someone could make a standardized component that will work with every WM device (past, present and future).

That probably wont happen

I have code now that gets the LAC+CID , GPRS or not only problem is that it doesnt work on my Qtek 9090 works nicely on the TyTN though

[PaulOBrien]

Any ideas WHY it's not working on the 9090?

P

[stargate]

And my code wont work on TyTn whatever I do to it.

It is extremly difficult at this point to make a unified dll with all this info to work on all WM devices. In regards to CF 2.0 - there is no need because usually these kind of programs are using native code because of the .NET's limitations. And furthermore, CF 2.0 only adds a few things such as outlook synch, picture picker, contact picker and so on. Futhermore, using CF 2.0 will delete from the supported list the WM2003 smartphones (and a great number of users use C500 - about 35% of my users are using SPV C500 smartphones).

To make this the way we all want it, we must find the place where the OS interacts with the GSM processor because I reckon the OS must be aware on some level or another of this information... and it must be in the same place for all devices since it depends on the OS. Unfortunatly, until now, nobody found this "place".

[The Doctor]

Paul (MVP), on Jan 19 2007, 10:02, said:

Any ideas WHY it's not working on the 9090?

P

Different radio versions Meaning the information is 'stored' if you like, in a different place.

Phil

This post has been edited by The Doctor: 19 January 2007 - 10:12 AM

[The Doctor]

stargate, on Jan 19 2007, 10:04, said:

To make this the way we all want it, we must find the place where the OS interacts with the GSM processor because I reckon the OS must be aware on some level or another of this information... and it must be in the same place for all devices since it depends on the OS. Unfortunatly, until now, nobody found this "place".

Unless you can find a way of taking the information directly from the chip itself, in much the same way as the field test app i posted earlier does. It displays the data output from the Qualcomm 6275 chip on my hermes, its just a matter of fine tuning to get it to work of different radios.

If you go by the memory address approach, couldn't you have a lookup table with the different rom version/radio version/device ID (hermes, tornado etc) and the memory address where the cellID is stored? It'd just be a case of getting your hands on a great number of devices and finding where they store it all

[MBoden]

Paul (MVP), on Jan 19 2007, 10:02, said:

Any ideas WHY it's not working on the 9090?

P

yes, the function call isnt implemented in the 9090's radio stack, i can get signal strength on both 9090 and TyTN tho

ill try to find another (non Q9090) 2003SE device i can test on

[PaulOBrien]

Quote

If you go by the memory address approach, couldn't you have a lookup table with the different rom version/radio version/device ID (hermes, tornado etc) and the memory address where the cellID is stored? It'd just be a case of getting your hands on a great number of devices and finding where they store it all wink.gif

Now THAT we can do

P

[PaulOBrien]

MBoden, on Jan 19 2007, 10:18, said:

yes, the function call isnt implemented in the 9090's radio stack, i can get signal strength on both 9090 and TyTN tho

ill try to find another (non Q9090) 2003SE device i can test on

I have a bunch of devices here (Fujitsu T830, JAQ3, SPL, BlackJack, Treo 750, StrTrk, Universal, Herald, Artemis etc.) I can test on if anyone wants me to assist

P

[stargate]

Regarding the memory approach things are more difficult because this is not just a matter of finding a memory address that varies from device to device. Unfortunatly the structure differs also from model to model. In other words, we can make a repository of memory addresses and structures and then map them to every model. However, this will take an ennourmeous amount of time and the developer must have the device in hand to do this. Another issue is that for some reasons, I wasn't able to use this approach on devices such as Motorola MPX 220 - my point is that this approach may not always work.

Ok... let's recap... does anyone knows a way of getting the cellid except by reading memory addresses and COM ports?

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