[sergiopi]

SO is clear, screen aligment issue is a TyTN harware fault, as clearly stated from TyTN OFFICIAL WIKI

They say also DO NOT BUY TyTn with serial n. between 62xxx and 63(1-5 xxx)

SO my (AND THE MAJORITY OF YOURS) TyTN is a brick now, I can't sell (none would it if they check on HTC website) I can't swap (I had screen alignment problem after one month, because I am a good user, I am not used to overheat or strongly squeeze my phone, as they ask to do in the first period), should only be REPAIRED, but the serial wil be always the same, waiting long time to have it back (repaired also means a month waiting at least)

SO instead of saying "sorry guys, thank's to chose HTC, it was our fault, this is a new one" they said : "IS YOUR FAULT, YOU HAVE TO OVERHEAT AND SQUEEZE IT DURING THE FIRST WEEK, FOLKS"

We have only a solution in my mind, to send many e-mail to

pr@htc.com.tw (HTC press room)

I am owner of a TyTN phone with serial number between HTC62xxx and HTC63(1-5)xxx. I am a normal user, not used to overheat and squeeze my phone during the first two weeks of ownership and now I have the screen alignment issue. You know it is YOUR fault, please swap my phone with a new one.
Please learn from INTEL lesson and avoid this letter and the case explained to all newspaper, analists and so on http://www.mackido.c...ry_PentBug.html
I want it swapped with a non-fault one even after the first 2 weeks
__________________________________________________ _______________
Post this message everywere in the Pocket PC forum, hermes forum and we will avoid to have the most precious brik of our life!

This is the first page from HTCWIKI
( http://www.htcwiki.com/page/TyTN )

TyTN
TyTN Release Date: July 2006
(a.k.a. Hermes, Vodafone 1605, Orange SPV M3100)

IMPORTANT: 70% of HTC TyTN devices have screen alignment problem!!!
HTC WILL NOT REPLACE IT AFTER TWO WEEKS, YOU CAN ONLY GET IT REPAIRED. So push it hard and make it hot on your first week after buying it to see if the screen alginment problem appears on your device, otherwise the screen alignment problem will appear later and your device will not be replaced, only repaired as per HTC DOA.
If you are thinking of buying an HTC TyTN, make sure you get an HTC636 or higher serrial number. Avoid S/N HTC62XXX and HTC63[1-5]XXX

[Sponsored Links]

[nuttyphilt]

That site isn't an 'official' site.

And 70% seems an over estimate at best.

I don't understand why it's an expensive brick. If it's faulty, then HTC repair it, then you use it as originally intended.

[richard_d]

sergiopi, on Oct 7 2006, 17:58, said:

SO is clear, screen aligment issue is a TyTN harware fault, as clearly stated from TyTN OFFICIAL WIKI

They say also DO NOT BUY TyTn with serial n. between 62xxx and 63(1-5 xxx)

SO my (AND THE MAJORITY OF YOURS) TyTN is a brick now, I can't sell (none would it if they check on HTC website) I can't swap (I had screen alignment problem after one month, because I am a good user, I am not used to overheat or strongly squeeze my phone, as they ask to do in the first period), should only be REPAIRED, but the serial wil be always the same, waiting long time to have it back (repaired also means a month waiting at least)

SO instead of saying "sorry guys, thank's to chose HTC, it was our fault, this is a new one" they said : "IS YOUR FAULT, YOU HAVE TO OVERHEAT AND SQUEEZE IT DURING THE FIRST WEEK, FOLKS"

We have only a solution in my mind, to send many e-mail to

pr@htc.com.tw (HTC press room)

I am owner of a TyTN phone with serial number between HTC62xxx and HTC63(1-5)xxx. I am a normal user, not used to overheat and squeeze my phone during the first two weeks of ownership and now I have the screen alignment issue. You know it is YOUR fault, please swap my phone with a new one.
Please learn from INTEL lesson and avoid this letter and the case explained to all newspaper, analists and so on http://www.mackido.c...ry_PentBug.html
I want it swapped with a non-fault one even after the first 2 weeks
__________________________________________________ _______________
Post this message everywere in the Pocket PC forum, hermes forum and we will avoid to have the most precious brik of our life!

This is the first page from HTCWIKI
( http://www.htcwiki.com/page/TyTN )

TyTN
TyTN Release Date: July 2006
(a.k.a. Hermes, Vodafone 1605, Orange SPV M3100)

IMPORTANT: 70% of HTC TyTN devices have screen alignment problem!!!
HTC WILL NOT REPLACE IT AFTER TWO WEEKS, YOU CAN ONLY GET IT REPAIRED. So push it hard and make it hot on your first week after buying it to see if the screen alginment problem appears on your device, otherwise the screen alignment problem will appear later and your device will not be replaced, only repaired as per HTC DOA.
If you are thinking of buying an HTC TyTN, make sure you get an HTC636 or higher serrial number. Avoid S/N HTC62XXX and HTC63[1-5]XXX

Can you supply the address of the official Tytn wiki you quote? The only Wiki for Tytn that I've seen is the xda developers site which is no more official than this one.

Where do you get 70% from? The highest figure I've seen is on a poll on the xda developers site and that was giving around 54% last time I looked (which bearing in mind that it's a largely self selecting audience of very early adopters and those seeking help with a problem is going to be over high).

If you've had your phone less than a month then at least in the UK your retailer should replace it.

I don't understand your post title - why is this bad marketing or service? HTC have acknowledged the problem and are fixing the fault under warranty so no one is being left with a 'brick'.

I don't understand your comparison with the intel business either.

Richard

[fluffcat1]

Yeah, cos the wiki HTC set up that anyone can edit is 'official' eh?

And where do they get 70% from? Seems an awful round figure! Doubt they've had 70% returns on those models somehow. Some aggrieved muppet with a broken device they've most likely caused, and who can get no recompense from the reseller has taken advantage of the wiki concept IMO and is likely jepordising the HTC involvement in it's future.

I've a good mind to register just to edit those comments out

Richard

[sergiopi]

fluffcat1, on Oct 8 2006, 12:52, said:

Yeah, cos the wiki HTC set up that anyone can edit is 'official' eh?

And where do they get 70% from? Seems an awful round figure! Doubt they've had 70% returns on those models somehow. Some aggrieved muppet with a broken device they've most likely caused, and who can get no recompense from the reseller has taken advantage of the wiki concept IMO and is likely jepordising the HTC involvement in it's future.

I've a good mind to register just to edit those comments out

Richard

http://www.htcwiki.com/page/TyTN is the HTC WIKi

First of all:
OFFICIAL in terms od european laws (and may be US Law) is something with patent logo on it, on its name, on its pages
Please Richard, try to set up a www.ferrariwiki.com with ferrari logo on it, or www.Valentinowiki.com with the firm on the first page, and be prepared to pay.

Is ALSO LINKED FROM OFFICIAL HTC SITE

Could be voice of users or company but with the HTC LOGO and having HTC WIKI name in europe could mean only two things:

1) STOLEN LOGO and NAME
2) OFFICIAL or company approved

Then:
The law is clear: replacing isn't a matter of how long time after selling the is bug revealed; when you discover you have to report and they have to fix, repairing it, if the value of your stuff will be the same as non-repaired, swapping if the repair will reduce the value of the object (Think a car with evident repair on its door...) or an HTC with the the serial BANNED as defective!

Then:
I called the HTC telephone assistance and the confirm every single word written on the wiki!

So next time please, turn the brain on before turning on the keyboard!

This post has been edited by sergiopi: 08 October 2006 - 07:50 PM

[fluffcat1]

sergiopi, on Oct 8 2006, 20:46, said:

http://www.htcwiki.com/page/TyTN is the HTC WIKi

First of all:
OFFICIAL in terms od european laws (and my be US Law) is something with patent logo on it, on its name, on its pages
Please Richard, try to set up a www.ferrariwiki.com with ferrari logo on it, or www.Valentinowiki.com with the firm on the first page, and be prepared to pay.

Is ALSO LINKED FROM OFFICIAL HTC SITE

Could be voice of users or company but with the HTC LOGO and having HTC WIKI name in europe could mean only two things:

1) STOLEN LOGO and NAME
2) Official or company approved

Then:
The law is clear: replacing isn't a matter of how long time after selling the is bug revealed; when you discover you have to report and they have to fix, repairing it, if the value of your stuff will be the same as non-repaired, swapping if the repair will reduce the value of the object (Think a car with evident repair on its door...) or an HTC with the the serial BANNED as defective!

So next time please, turn the brain on before turning on the keyboard!

It may well have been setup by HTC, use their logo with permission and link to / from their site, but as it can be edited by ANYONE who registers and not just HTC themselves, as is the nature of wiki's, then it CANNOT be taked to be HTC's OFFICIAL statement about anything. In a nutshell, THEY DID NOT WRITE IT.

Has the 'fault' been mentioned on HTC's site? Then it ISN'T 'OFFICIAL'

Duuuhhh....maybe you should turn your own brain on?

Richard

[fluffcat1]

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Seems a pretty cast-iron 'arms length' agreement for the 'HTC' wiki there....

How anyone can assume anything posted on that wiki is HTC's 'official' line on anything is beyond me!

Richard

[bydandie]

sergiopi, on Oct 8 2006, 20:46, said:

The law is clear: replacing isn't a matter of how long time after selling the is bug revealed; when you discover you have to report and they have to fix, repairing it, if the value of your stuff will be the same as non-repaired, swapping if the repair will reduce the value of the object (Think a car with evident repair on its door...) or an HTC with the the serial BANNED as defective!

Aye and the law you refer to clearly states that you have to accept a repair for any defect within the first six months if it is cheaper than a replacement. In the case of a SIM-free TyTN, then this will be the case. Not so IMHO in the case of a contract phone, but that's another story. WIth reference to your car analogy, many cars gets fixes applied to them as they are found. This does not devalue the car in the slightest, if the repair is made, then everyone's happy. This has been posted by a user called XDA-Developers, who has taken it upon themselves to post this. No law-breaking by HTC here!

sergiopi, on Oct 8 2006, 20:46, said:

Then:
I called the HTC telephone assistance and the confirm every single word written on the wiki!

Yes, they have recognised a fault in devices within that S/N. Not quite sure what your point is, if the device is repaired, then there is no issue. If the device shows the issue, then get it replaced FOC, again there is no issue. No problems selling devices within this S/N range.

[yrreP]

I doubt HTC would host an official WIKI in this type of manner.

Yeah there are frustrating issues with the TyTN and counterparts, but they appaer to be dealing with it.

http://whois.domaint...com/htcwiki.com

[fluffcat1]

yrreP, on Oct 8 2006, 22:48, said:

I doubt HTC would host an official WIKI in this type of manner.

Waggener Edstrom Strategic Communications = Microsoft's PR BTW.

http://www.waggeneredstrom.com/

It is a HTC setup site, just the content is not from HTC, it's from the usual internet cranks

Richard

[sergiopi]

fluffcat1, on Oct 8 2006, 22:00, said:

Waggener Edstrom Strategic Communications = Microsoft's PR BTW.

http://www.waggeneredstrom.com/

It is a HTC setup site, just the content is not from HTC, it's from the usual internet cranks

Richard

Now we agree on:
1) The site is from HTC ( and Microsoft ) marketing and media agency
2) The info's they have on-line about HTC position on screen alignment issue are extactly the same as the HTC OFFICIAL Position, as stated in telephone conversations from HTC service with users from all over europe
3) The 44/99/CE statement doesn't makes any difference if you discover the problem during the first 2 weeks or after 104 weeks!
4) They state also DO NOT BUY TyTN with serial between HTC62xxx and HTC 63(1-5)xxx

and we can strongly suspect:
1) The REPAIRED isn't the same of a new-one
2) Will be hard to sell that phones

MARKETING LESSON

I will have to pay some money, as a first example the number to call to have the autorized centers in Italy is a 199 number .50 € a minute, plus...., plus... then I can't send to the center, I have to bring to some office in my city, losing half day of work, no phone during (at least) the 15 days usually needed to have it back.... and this phone cost 700€!

Motorola, or Nokia have they own repair centers in the majority of large cities, you can send there using a pfre-paid UPS or DHL, if you go to the center they give a coutesy phone during the time needed for repair it if you have a HIGH-END Phone

If you haven't service try to acquire customers and substitute the faulty devices
_____________________________________________________
In italian about warranty terms:
Decreto Legislativo del 02 febbraio 2002 N. 24 col quale è stata recepita, anche nell'ordinamento italiano, la Direttiva n. 44/99/CE che ha come scopo quella di garantire un livello più alto di tutela del Consumatore infatti essa si prescrive in 26 mesi (24 mesi entro i quali può manifestarsi il difetto, più i due mesi di tempo per denunciarne la scoperta). Tale tutela fa riferimento al concetto di conformità del bene al contratto e prevede per il consumatore il diritto al ripristino della conformità del bene mediante riparazione o sostituzione nel caso in cui egli riscontri al momento della consegna un difetto di conformità. La normativa quindi può essere applicata solo quando si ravvisa una "NON CONFORMITA' AL CONTRATTO" e menziona espressamente le qualità che i beni di consumo devono avere per essere ritenuti conformi al contratto. Essa non si applica in automatico ma solo qualora si registri una difformità del bene secondo i criteri espressamente indicati dalla normativa in oggetto, soltanto in questo caso il consumatore avrà diritto ai rimedi che enuncia la legge

[fluffcat1]

sergiopi, on Oct 9 2006, 10:02, said:

Now we agree on: ....

NO WE DO NOT AGREE!

The site may well have been SET UP by Waggener Edstrom, aho also act for microsoft, but if you read the terms quoted above 'HTCWiki' accepts NO responsibility for content. Duh.....

Can you not understrand that? It is very clear. So anything written on those pages does not come from HTC themselves but other authors.

IT

IS

NOT

OFFICIAL!!!!!!!

Richard

[bydandie]

The thing that amuses me sergio is that you have already been told by pof over at xda-devs is that the login credentials used for the account used to post this are public knowledge. Also last I heard italy was an EU member? That means that what I stated above in response to you still stands. HTC are doing nothing wrong, and there is no evidence of the 70%

[richard_d]

fluffcat1, on Oct 9 2006, 10:36, said:

NO WE DO NOT AGREE!

The site may well have been SET UP by Waggener Edstrom, aho also act for microsoft, but if you read the terms quoted above 'HTCWiki' accepts NO responsibility for content. Duh.....

Can you not understrand that? It is very clear. So anything written on those pages does not come from HTC themselves but other authors.

IT

IS

NOT

OFFICIAL!!!!!!!

Richard

Ever felt you were hitting your head against a brick wall

Richard

[sergiopi]

richard_d, on Oct 9 2006, 10:50, said:

Ever felt you were hitting your head against a brick wall

Richard

Richard (both) I agree, is UNOFFICIAL.
I'm sorry my hairs are mostly white, may be my brain is gone... so I've been to
THIS address http://www.europe.htc.com/support/support....?device=htctytn

Looks official, top 10 questions on TyTN: NOTHING about screen alignment; strange because was the MAIN question on HTC TyTN hardware on Internet.

Let me check on DISPLAY FAQ on HTC site, nothing.... but I find an OFFICIAL repair centre in NL, confirming the replacement policy, in XDA-DEVELOPERS HERMES forum... So there is an OFFICIAL position on TyTN clearly stating that screen aligment is an hardware problem!

I made a phone call, to HTC OFFICIAL centre , (this is the enquiry number I had 061500uk09284397) and the said EXACTLY WHAT UNOFFICIAL WIKI SAID (except the percentage) on xda-developers poll we have around 40%,of ALL HERMES having the screen alignment problem, and ALL means new one and people STILL not having...
The HTC centre the confirmed the 15 days replacement policy, and yes if you have the problems after the 16th day they will repair under warranty conditions. .

Is a WELL KNOWN HARDWARE BUG from HTC point of view, and they are playing the official/unofficial game
to avoid big problems to resellers (they still have to sell some of HTC62xxx with other names) slowly admitting the problem.

You were in this business when a "game" closer to this was played from Intel? They learned the marketing lesson, HTC is on the way on....

Yes Italy is in the EU and when we pay 700€ for a phone we would like something 100% working not 70% or 30%. If you know and you sell... and don't replace you are STEALING MONEY TO CONSUMERS, this is all over in the world

This post has been edited by sergiopi: 09 October 2006 - 05:10 PM

[richard_d]

sergiopi, on Oct 9 2006, 16:00, said:

Richard (both) I agree, is UNOFFICIAL.
I'm sorry my hairs are mostly white, may be my brain is gone... so I've been to
THIS address http://www.europe.htc.com/support/support....?device=htctytn

Thank you

sergiopi, on Oct 9 2006, 16:00, said:

So there is an OFFICIAL position on TyTN clearly stating that screen aligment is an hardware problem!

No ones denying that (just the 70% figure)

sergiopi, on Oct 9 2006, 16:00, said:

The HTC centre the confirmed the 15 days replacement policy, and yes if you have the problems after the 16th day they will repair under warranty conditions. .

So if they're happy to repair it what's the problem? Alternatively try contacting who you bought the phone from - over here most suppliers will replace the phone a month later.

sergiopi, on Oct 9 2006, 16:00, said:

Yes Italy is in the EU and when we pay 700€ for a phone we would like something 100% working not 70% or 30%. If you know and you sell... and don't replace you are STEALING MONEY TO CONSUMERS, this is all over in the world

Providing they fix the phone so that it's working as advertised you can't accuse them of stealing (well you can but I'd make sure I had a good lawyer). No manufacturer is going to risk their reputation by deliberately
selling a faulty product, but these things happen - look at the Nokia N80 battery issues, the N73's buggy software etc. etc. If you buy any complex piece of hardware that's freshly released you take a greater chance that when used in real life conditions a product may develop minor problems that weren't spotted in testing - providing the company sorts them out quickly and without fuss then I don't have a problem with that. Many people have the early serial number Hermes and don't have problems - I can't see you having problems selling it on if that's what you decide to do.

Yes having an inherent fault fixed is an irritation, but that's all - you seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill, and take what you read on the internet without the required pinch of salt.

Richard

Richard

[sergiopi]

NOKIA N80
from www.mobile-review.com
It became sort of evil tendency for Nokia to sell commercial devices based on S60 that work even worse than prototypes for first couple of months. Nokia N80 became no exception. It was hard to name this smartphone a “viable” device until firmware v17 has been released. It was not stable at all. Release of v17 made the way device operates closer to stable, relieved from many of its initial problems, and as it usually happens, added some new ones.

BUT IT WAS A SOFTWARE FAULT, hardware fault are solved replacing devices, batteries, long time after the 16th day....

Even a poor layer, if he can demonstrate that they know the are selling faulty devices can win, and this is why HTC is UNOFFICIALLY admitting the hardware problem.


Come on HTC... are you waiting suggestion from those companies?

　　▪　ABN AMRO
　　▪　Arete Research Service LLP
　　▪　BNP Paribas
　　▪　Capital Securities
　　▪　CLSA Ltd.
　　▪　CSFB
　　▪　Daiwa Institute of Research Ltd.
　　▪　Deutsche Securities
　　▪　Fubon Securities
　　▪　Goldman Sachs & Co.
　　▪　HSBC Securities
　　▪　J.P. Morgan
　　▪　KGI Securities
　　▪　Lehman Brothers
　　▪　Macquarie Securities Ltd.
　　▪　Merrill Lynch
　　▪　Morgan Stanley & Co.
　　▪　SinoPac Securities
　　▪　UBS Securities
　　▪　Yuanta Securities


　　 High Tech Computer Corp. ("HTC") is followed by the analysts at the brokerage
　　 firms listed above. The list may not be complete and is subject to change. Please
　　 note that any opinions, estimates or forecasts regarding our historical or predicted
　　 performance made by the analysts at these brokerage firms are theirs alone and
　　 do not represent opinions, forecasts or predictions of HTC or our management.
　　 HTC is providing this list as a service to its investors, and expressly disclaims any
　　 endorsement of or concurrence with any information, estimates, forecasts,
　　 opinions, conclusions or recommendations provided by these analysts. Interested
　　 persons must obtain copies of analysts' reports on their own; HTC does not
　　 distribute these reports.

[mwright]

sergiopi, on Oct 9 2006, 18:08, said:

Even a poor layer, if he can demonstrate that they know the are selling faulty devices can win, and this is why HTC is UNOFFICIALLY admitting the hardware problem.

This thread is driving me slowly mad - I am not sure who believes what around here!

Where is the evidence that they are NOW knowingly selling faulty equipment? At some time in the past they were presumably selling the devices that later exhibit the screen alignment fault. As far as I know, these devices are eligible for repair under warranty and then they are NOT faulty anymore.

I really do not believe that HTC would publish this information unofficially as a way out of the problem. They seem willing and able to fix the problem as and when it occurs (which does not appear to be on 100% of "affected" handsets anyway).

[richard_d]

[quote name='mwright' date='Oct 9 2006, 18:50' post='776449']
This thread is driving me slowly mad

[\quote]

Me too I retire gracefully.

[Scipi]

Hi Sergio, my name is Lorenzo from Treviso. I have a HTC TyTN with screen problems, how long did it take Teleca Telephone Service to replace your phone ? I just recieved mine yesterday from factotas and am not very happy with it becuase of the screen problems which I have.

saluti

Lorenzo

sergiopi, on Oct 9 2006, 10:02, said:

Now we agree on:
1) The site is from HTC ( and Microsoft ) marketing and media agency
2) The info's they have on-line about HTC position on screen alignment issue are extactly the same as the HTC OFFICIAL Position, as stated in telephone conversations from HTC service with users from all over europe
3) The 44/99/CE statement doesn't makes any difference if you discover the problem during the first 2 weeks or after 104 weeks!
4) They state also DO NOT BUY TyTN with serial between HTC62xxx and HTC 63(1-5)xxx

and we can strongly suspect:
1) The REPAIRED isn't the same of a new-one
2) Will be hard to sell that phones

MARKETING LESSON

I will have to pay some money, as a first example the number to call to have the autorized centers in Italy is a 199 number .50 € a minute, plus...., plus... then I can't send to the center, I have to bring to some office in my city, losing half day of work, no phone during (at least) the 15 days usually needed to have it back.... and this phone cost 700€!

Motorola, or Nokia have they own repair centers in the majority of large cities, you can send there using a pfre-paid UPS or DHL, if you go to the center they give a coutesy phone during the time needed for repair it if you have a HIGH-END Phone

If you haven't service try to acquire customers and substitute the faulty devices
_____________________________________________________
In italian about warranty terms:
Decreto Legislativo del 02 febbraio 2002 N. 24 col quale è stata recepita, anche nell'ordinamento italiano, la Direttiva n. 44/99/CE che ha come scopo quella di garantire un livello più alto di tutela del Consumatore infatti essa si prescrive in 26 mesi (24 mesi entro i quali può manifestarsi il difetto, più i due mesi di tempo per denunciarne la scoperta). Tale tutela fa riferimento al concetto di conformità del bene al contratto e prevede per il consumatore il diritto al ripristino della conformità del bene mediante riparazione o sostituzione nel caso in cui egli riscontri al momento della consegna un difetto di conformità. La normativa quindi può essere applicata solo quando si ravvisa una "NON CONFORMITA' AL CONTRATTO" e menziona espressamente le qualità che i beni di consumo devono avere per essere ritenuti conformi al contratto. Essa non si applica in automatico ma solo qualora si registri una difformità del bene secondo i criteri espressamente indicati dalla normativa in oggetto, soltanto in questo caso il consumatore avrà diritto ai rimedi che enuncia la legge

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